‘I don’t believe in the social economy, I believe in one economy’ – Lord Adebowale

The annual Labour party conference is in full swing in Liverpool in the north west of England when I meet Lord Victor Adbowale this week, the chair of Social Enterprise UK who is considered by some as one of the most influential people in the sector. The crossbench peer has just spent over an hour making the case for social enterprise at a fringe event in the Museum of Liverpool, in a discussion with Labour politicians and several commentators on improving public service delivery; no easy feat, but he received many nods and applause from the audience throughout his intervention. 

I explain that the interview won’t involve a ride in a black cab this time, and I sense some disappointment as he laughs. We still end up, a bit by accident, in an unusual space for a conversation: the tiny “reading tent” of the museum, a cosy space created for children’s story time. With his low voice and slight Yorkshire accent, I imagine Adebowale is probably quite good at reading books to kids, but unfortunately the topic is rather serious: the UK government, which has failed in the past year to deliver the high growth it had promised, is in serious trouble with a populist far-right now in reach of potentially leading the country. 

Pioneers Post: How can social enterprises help the government deliver on its ambitions?

Victor Adebowale: It feels to me as though the government has got the telescope the wrong way around. If you look down through a telescope at a community, what you see is something actually large, and you look at the detail of it, see how it's working, and then you see that it's not just that community, but there are others like it. And you can examine it and you can really see it as a scalable opportunity. 

I think the way social enterprise is seen [by the government] through their telescope is the other way around. They're looking through the big end and seeing just that tiny little thing, and they don't see its relevance, its connectivity, its power and its scalability. I think that's the real problem, and I'm really quite frustrated with this government. I've had meetings with the chief secretary to the Treasury, with Keir Starmer, all these people, and they get it: the stats on social enterprise are so powerful. Just look at Liverpool: it's a high-growth area. So they want growth, this is the high growth area. And yet they see it as somehow charitable, not commercial. They see it as somehow risky, when it's the safest investment governments ever made in terms of return on investment.

I'm really quite frustrated with this government

I am frustrated and worried, because here's an answer staring them in the face that's proven, tested and available, and they just keep sliding over it. They talk about co-ops – I've got nothing against co-ops. [The government] will double the number of co-ops [as it promised in its manifesto]. But it’s not big enough in terms of the ambition to grow the economy and to make that economy relevant to the people who need to vote for them. So it is frustrating not to be taken seriously as an economic force. 

Pioneers Post: Why do you think that is?

Victor Adebowale: I think it's partly our fault. If people don't understand, you're 50% responsible… I do think that we do ourselves a disservice because we slip into charity talk, civil society talk. And, of course, that's not economics. We talk about the social economy – well, personally, I don't believe in the social economy, I believe in one economy. This economy is social or isn't, at the moment, it isn't, which is why people are pissed off.

But also it's partly [the government’s attitude]. It's something I really struggle with, because how can something with so much evidence in favour of the government's intentions be ignored by that government? Why do some businesses seem to be more businesses than our businesses? They're all businesses. I genuinely don't understand it, that's why I'm frustrated.

Pioneers Post: Is the message not reaching the government?

Victor Adebowale: I sat down with Keir Starmer – he got it, certainly in the room. It just didn't follow through. We're not seen as part of the business community, we're not seen as part of the Great Britain PLC [the government’s vision of the UK as an entrepreneurial country]. It's incredibly frustrating that the government isn't creating new ideas. What's going to get us out of the circumstances we're in isn't just doing more of the same, it's new ideas.

Pioneers Post: Going back a couple of years, you led a high-profile commission on social investment. One of the findings was that social investment failed to reach black and minority ethnic entrepreneurs. What progress had been made? 

Victor Adebowale: There’s been some small [progress], like Pathway Fund, [which specifically focuses on black and minority ethnic social entrepreneurs], but it’s much less than I recommended. That's disappointing, because those recommendations were not just pulled out of thin air, they were evidence-based, so until they hit the right number in terms of investment in black and minority ethnic communities, based on the evidence, I'm going to feel disappointed. That means you're leaving value on the table: you're leaving value created by people that are various shades of me on the table. 

• Read more: UK social investment making ‘slow and disappointing progress’ in meeting social entrepreneurs’ needs – Adebowale

Pioneers Post: Why is this happening?

Victor Adebowale: Racism. I know these days, people will see that as a very pejorative and very triggering term to use, but racism can be very gentle. It's not necessarily a violent ‘punch you in the face' [attitude]. It's a deep belief. When we were doing the research [for the commission on social investment], one of the things you read in the report was the notion, from the investment providers, that the forms and the application process is too complicated for people from ethnic minorities to understand – this was evidence given to us. And I said, “Well, I've got a master's, what do you mean?” There’s an inherent belief that somehow black communities cannot be smart enough to do this. 

You're leaving value created by people that are various shades of me on the table

I know that Better Society Capital and others have done a bit better [with the diversity of people on] their boards, for instance. [But] but the progress is glacial. It's not going fast enough, given the context. The [response to the commission] was [at first] defensive, and then acknowledged, rather than learning and engaging. 

Pioneers Post: Did the commission give a stronger voice to social entrepreneurs from ethnic minorities, with some black-led organisations taken more seriously by social investors? 

Victor Adebowale: I think it might, I’m told by these organisations that it has, and that’s a great thing. But I'm old enough to know what some of the responses to their voice might be: I used to call it “piss off money”. What I mean by that is that you get black organisations that are rightly saying, we can spend the money better, we're structured to do it, we've got the skills – give us the money. And then what happens is that the mainstream organisations, that have done a really bad job at this historically, give them some money.

But it's not enough, and it in no way meets the historic injustice. And then those organisations are told to go away: “Here's your million pounds. Stop complaining.” But it doesn’t change the infrastructure. It doesn’t change who makes the decisions, who has the means of investment and the biggest bucks. It’s the core that I’m looking to change – that’s what the [commission] report was about: it’s about power, and understanding what needs to change.

Pioneers Post: What will it take to achieve this change?

Victor Adebowale: Persistence, and invitations to learn with organisations and communities.