How to use AI without harming people and planet, with Nikoline Arns and James Gauci

Nikoline Arns, a civic tech entrepreneur who has been building and challenging new technologies for almost a decade, wants us to put our trust back into human expertise. 

“The internet, for me, it has completely died, I cannot find anything. If you want to search something on Google… you never really get the answer from this little blurb the AI gives you. So you need data that's actually trusted, and which data you trust, maybe it comes from humans that you trust,” she says.

Arns, a champion of open source technology and small scale, lightweight AI models, believes social enterprises have a responsibility to properly understand the technology, and companies behind that technology, that they want to use.

I feel like there is a big gap of understanding. People know that AI is a solution, but they have no idea how it works

She says: “I feel like there is a big gap of understanding. People know that AI is a solution, but they have no idea how it works. Who are the companies behind it? If you are already building your business in a conscious way, you should look at the technology in the same conscious way.”

Whether it is truly possible to take control of AI, and to do so without harming society or the environment, are questions many social entrepreneurs are currently wrestling with. For James Gauci, founder of social enterprise AI consultancy Cadent, supporting organisations to use the technology ethically and effectively is day-to-day business. 

• Read more: James Gauci on why social entrepreneurs must lead the way through the AI moral maze

At the Social Enterprise World Forum 2025, held in Taipei, Taiwan, Pioneers Post recorded Gauci and Arns in conversation for our Good Experts podcast. Listen to the podcast to hear Gauci and Arns explore:

• How open source technology can keep pace with Silicon Valley 
• Why small scale AI models can mitigate some environmental and social harms associated with the technology
• Practical advice for social entrepreneurs wanting to make use of AI

This podcast is the full version of our interview with Nikoline Arns which also features in our film The AI Dilemma: Can social enterprises innovate without compromising their values? Watch the film here. 

The AI Dilemma was produced in partnership with Cadent, with support from Social Enterprise World Forum.